Senior Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) leader, Muhammad Zubair, is one of the closest confidants of former prime minister Nawaz Sharif and his daughter Maryam. This closeness, according to PML-N insiders, is not just political, but personal. Therefore, Zubair holds the unique position of being the spokesperson for both of them.

He is also seen as one of the key advisors and political gurus of Maryam Nawaz, PML-N’s vice president, who is being described as the ‘true political heir of Nawaz Sharif.’ However, in this interview, Zubair has categorically said that he should not be seen as ‘a mentor’ of Maryam, rather he always learns a few things from her.

Recently, Zubair met the ousted former prime minister in London against the backdrop of swirling rumours of his return. But all the speculations about Sharif’s return anytime soon stand quashed now following doctor’s report that the convicted leader remains medically unfit to travel.

In this interview with Zubair, Bol News asks him about Sharif’s future plans, PML-N’s internal politics and various other aspects of national politics.

 

 

You recently met Nawaz Sharif in London. What’s in his mind? Is he planning to return to Pakistan?

Muhammad Zubair: Nawaz Sharif is more than interested to come back to Pakistan as soon as possible. He understands how relevant he is to the national politics and the decisions he takes now will determine the short- and medium-term politics of Pakistan. He is also conscious about his legacy as well as the expectations of his millions of supporters… His decision to come back will largely be determined by these factors as well as his health condition.

He is in the consultative process with party leaders and other important people. I can only say that the next few months are extremely important in determining the future of Pakistan.

 

 

What was the agenda of your meeting with him?

MZ: There was no specific agenda. It is an honour and privilege to meet Mian Nawaz Sharif. That is true for any PML-N worker or leader. Right now, I only went to meet him in London, but let me tell you it was as much an honour and privilege to have met him when he was in jail. Of course, when you meet Mian Nawaz Sharif, the current political situation is discussed. In addition, matters relating to the party politics and the country’s economic situation were also part of the discussion. (But) there was no secret agenda as some people would like to believe or suggest.

 

 

Many people in Pakistan say that Nawaz Sharif dodged the system with fictitious medical reports. He hasn’t visited any hospital or clinic in London. Don’t you think that this perception is damaging his reputation?

MZ: It is for the present government to answer this question. The PM is on the record to have confirmed about the seriousness of Nawaz Sharif’s medical condition at the time. Not just the federal government, but the Punjab government was on board before the federal cabinet allowed Mian sahib to leave the country. They should be answerable on this. As for Mian Sahib, he was in no position to fake his medical condition. He was in jail at the time.  He has built up his reputation over a period of 40 years and it remains unaffected by such events. If at all, his support base has only grown during the last few years. That explains why the PMLN remains the most popular political party and Mian Nawaz Sharif the most popular leader in the country.

 

 

PTI’s disgruntled leader Jahangir Tareen met Nawaz Sharif? What was the agenda?

MZ: I am not aware of any such meeting. Anything is possible in politics, but for now there is nothing on the cards.

 

 

Is Nawaz Sharif trying to mend fences with the establishment?

MZ: The PMLN is a political party and we are competing with other political parties. Nawaz Sharif has no political rivalry with the establishment. We believe that Pakistan’s Constitution is supreme and has defined boundaries for every institution. If all the institutions, including the establishment, remain within their boundaries, Nawaz Sharif has absolutely no issue.

 

 

Why is there an impression that Shehbaz Sharif alone is acceptable for the establishment?

MZ: This is a perception that has been built as if we are in negotiations with the establishment. Shehbaz Sharif is recognised as the best administrator this country has seen. He’s delivered at the provincial level and there is no doubt he has the capacity to deliver at the federal level. I am sure the establishment should have no issue with Shehbaz Sharif or any other PMLN leader once that stage comes.

 

 

Has Nawaz Sharif burnt boats by criticising the top military leadership?

MZ: Nawaz Sharif has been the Prime Minister thrice. Each time he was removed from the office on one pretext or the other. Each time certain sections wrote him off saying that Nawaz Sharif is now history. But every time he surprised everyone by making a stunning comeback. As far as his criticism of the military is concerned, why is Nawaz Sharif singled out. Imran Khan has been far more critical of the military than anyone in our history. And he has spoken against the military not just to the Pakistani audiences but to people outside Pakistan. So, it’s quite unfair to pick up Nawaz Sharif only. In addition, one needs to understand the background of anything that Nawaz Sharif has been saying.

 

 

Who will be PML-N’s candidate for premiership in 2023?

MZ: That will be determined once the electoral process takes place. The final decision will be taken by Mian Nawaz Sharif. We are hopeful that the disqualification and the trumped-up cases against Nawaz Sharif are decided in his favour so that he becomes eligible to bid for the PM’s slot for the 4th time. Who knows?

 

 

Do you think Maryam has the potential to become the next PM?

MZ: Maryam Nawaz has shown remarkable courage in the most difficult circumstances and has become a symbol of defiance and resistance. She’s loved and admired by the party workers across the country. Like any major politician, Maryam also has political ambitions. She understands that when the time comes, she will follow the party discipline and the decision of Mian Nawaz Sharif. But I have no doubt that given a chance she will be an outstanding Prime Minister. Time is on her side.

 

 

Is there a simple difference of opinion between Nawaz and Shehbaz or the rift is over the future leadership?

MZ: PML-N is the country’s largest political party, which has gone through the most difficult time in the last four years or so. Looking at Pakistan’s history, there is no example of any political party which could withstand the pressure that PML-N has faced. Yet, it remained almost intact. The credit for that goes to the leadership especially Mian Nawaz Sharif and Shehbaz Sharif. They have been well supported by the other party leaders and workers.  With the kind of pressure in the last few years, it’s natural that there will be differences in coming up with a strategy to deal with the situation. Having a different opinion in political parties is natural and the PML-N is no exception. Contrary to the general belief, we have a culture where strong points of views are expressed. The differences are overplayed by the media and our opponents.

 

 

Do you really think that Nawaz Sharif can become the PM for the fourth time?

MZ: He became PM three times but each time he could not complete his term. In 2017, he was undone as a result of non-disclosure of salary from his son’s company. As per Pakistani tax laws, individuals are not even supposed to show such a receivable. He was wrongly punished and disqualified for life. We believe that one day justice will be done that will allow him to become the PM for the fourth time. Let the people take that decision. Let them decide without any interference who should represent them as the PM. He deserves at least one full term without conspiracies. Let him complete the unfulfilled agenda that he set for Pakistan.

 

 

Is Maryam smarter than her father as some believe?

MZ: Nawaz Sharif has been Prime Minister three times and you have to be an extremely intelligent person to remain the most popular political leader over 40 years. To suggest that he is not so smart is a wrong assumption. No matter which way one looks at it, surviving for four decades is not so easy. Most leaders are unable to remain relevant even for one term. As for Maryam Nawaz, she’s educated, articulate and intelligent. In a short, she has been able to grasp and comprehend national issues. That is only possible for an intelligent person.

 

 

People say that whenever the PML-N leader Nawaz Sharif is in trouble or he always flees away. Your take?

MZ: That is simply not true. Nawaz Sharif first got in trouble when he was removed as the PM in 1993. His removal was unjustified; yet, he remained in Pakistan during the entire period for three years. In 1999, he was removed through a military intervention and arrested. While in jail, he was forced to go outside Pakistan. Going into exile is not fleeing the country. It’s not an option for a prisoner to decide his fate.

This time as well he went into exile because of health reasons. Prior to his departure, the federal cabinet as well as the Lahore High Court allowed him to go to London. He remains there for now. His doctors have advised him not to travel. Please do understand he is not afraid of going to jail. In 2018, he left his wife on the death bed and returned to Pakistan along with his daughter. There is no such example of such a bold decision in our history. Coming back from London knowing that he and daughter will go straight to jail is not an easy thing.

 

 

You are seen as one of the mentors of Maryam Nawaz. Is she a good pupil?

MZ: There is no truth in this. I have never been her mentor. Yes, over the years when you meet regularly, there is learning from each other. I have learned a lot from her. Like I said, she’s intelligent enough to pick up things on her own.

 

 

Many analysts believe that there are two narratives prevalent in the PML-N…

MZ: There is only one narrative in the party and that is Nawaz Sharif’s. There is no dispute on that count. Every leader and worker subscribes to Nawaz Sharif’s narrative. Of course, there are different views, but that is normal for any democratic party.  One also has to take into account the background of the political situation that the party faced since 2017. There are different points of view within the party on how best to respond given the circumstances. The party also faced the brutality of the NAB and many of its leaders’ faced jail. In such a background, different narratives have been debated but at the end of the day, it is Nawaz Sharif’s narrative that prevails.

 

Why does the PML-N leader have to be one from the Sharif family? How can you justify dynastic politics?

MZ: Political parties grow when there is continuity of the democratic process. Unfortunately, there have been regular disruptions. Dynastic politics is only possible in a non-democratic environment because of the lack of opportunities for the new leadership to emerge.

One also needs to understand that politics is about having popular support. Is there any doubt who in the party has massive political support? Without Nawaz Sharif the party wouldn’t survive. Those who want to see the demise of the PML-N want a change in leadership, knowing well the consequences of such a decision.  Maryam Nawaz for example has emerged as one of the most popular leaders in the country because she’s loved and admired by millions and millions. This is true particularly in our part of the world. Look at India, Bangladesh and other countries. Congress in India has been led by the Nehru family during the last 100 years or so. In Bangladesh, Shaikh Mujeeb’s family still rules the country.

 

 

Was joining different parties a conscious decision of Asad and yourself? Why not one party?

MZ: I joined the PML-N for what it stood for, while Asad took his decision based on whatever the PTI represented. We had different perspectives on Pakistan’s macro issues more specifically;

• The civil-military relationship or imbalance.
• The significance of the Constitution.
• Relationship with our neighbours including trade.
• How best to make Pakistan internally peaceful?
• The role of the government that includes managing public sector enterprises.
• Economy.

There’s a fine line that separates the PML-N point-of-view with that of the PTI in some cases, while fundamental differences exist on how to manage the economy. So, I joined the PML-N because I strongly believed in what its policies were on the above macro issues, while Asad took his own decision.

 

 

Could you have served PTI better than Asad Umar?

MZ: I think PTI’s biggest mistake was the lack of understanding of Pakistan’s key issues and challenges. Asad had a fundamental role in that. If the plan is based on wrong assumptions it is bound to collapse as it did. That’s where I believe Asad and the PTI leadership went wrong and the country suffered. I believe that making a realistic plan is fundamental to your success. But the PTI had to come out with imaginary things that had no relevance to reality.

 

 

How do you see your party’s relationship with PPP?

MZ: When the PDM campaign started in September 2020, the relationship was excellent, especially the rapport between Maryam Nawaz and Bilawal Bhutto. That helped build the trust required to operate as part of the joint opposition. Unfortunately, the PPP’s decision not to go ahead with the resignations resulted in the breakup of the relations between the two parties. After much bitterness, things have improved somehow and now at least there is a lot of understanding and cooperation within the Assembly. Shehbaz Sharif has tried to bridge the gulf as the leader of the opposition in the National Assembly. We hope the level of trust will get better.

 

 

In case the opposition parties move the no confidence motion against Prime Minister Imran Khan, who will be the opposition’s candidate for premiership?

MZ: More important than who will be the Prime Minister is the issue of no-confidence. Whether to bring a vote of no-confidence and equally important when. Also, if the vote is able to dislodge the PM, what should be the mandate of the assembly — whether it is there only to work as a bridge before early elections or does the assembly complete its remaining period. These are crucial questions that need to be addressed before a formal decision is taken. Please do remember a vote of no-confidence will only be possible if all the opposition parties are united. And all are on one page with the post no-confidence scenario.

 

 

Yousaf Raza Gillani missed an important session due to which opposition faced a defeat in the Senate from one vote during the passage of the SBP amendment bill? Do you think he deliberately missed it?

MZ: I would not like to believe that he deliberately missed the session. However, as the opposition leader he should have been better prepared to preempt any government move. The SBP bill was a sellout from our standpoint and every effort should have been made to ensure the bill gets rejected. That unfortunately did not happen because of whatever reasons. We have issues with the manner in which Yousaf Raza Gillani was elected Leader of the opposition in the Senate. We also believe that as leader of the opposition, this particular vote should have been handled much better considering its sensitivity.